I had though that a Cleveland class somehow hooked up with the Prinz Eugen. That flush deck with those German looking turrets? And a tripod mast? Wasn't close to getting this one.
that is she. Incidentally,the British 8" heavy cruisers lead quite a charmed life during the Second World War,very few of them were lost. I have no idea why that is,other British cruisers often seemed a bit "fragile".
I forgot about the 2 Yorks,it was the Counties I had in mind,10 of 13 survived the war,not a bad ratio for Royal Navy ships. The later Towns lost 4 out of 10.
The Crown Colonies fared better but they did not serve through the whole war.
The Counties are one of my favourite ship classes. Probably the most elegant British warships built.
Savo Island was a very impressive battle,it was very well executed. Unfortunately it was well executed by the enemy,but you can't have everything. It is rumoured that the Australian cruiser was sunk by an American destroyer which might explain an American cruiser later receiving an Australian name.
Canberra was very much unready for battle. Not unlike the Italian heavies at Matapan.
I doubt an American destroyer could have sunk it, considering how badly our torpedoes were working. The Japanese really didn't seem to need any help.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Canberra_%28D33%29
"The Australian cruiser was able to avoid the Japanese torpedoes fired at the start of the engagement, but was on the receiving end of the Japanese cruisers' gunfire.[21] The first two salvos killed or wounded several senior officers, disabled both engine rooms, damaged the bridge and 4-inch gun platform and forced the flooding of her 8-inch magazines.[21][11] Within two minutes, the cruiser had been hit 24 times; she was immobilised, without power, and listing to starboard, with multiple internal fires and at least a fifth of her personnel dead or wounded.[22] At least one torpedo strike was reported during the Japanese attack, although none of the 19 torpedoes fired at Canberra by the Japanese cruisers were recorded as hitting their target.[21] Several personnel from Canberra believe that USS Bagley inadvertently torpedoed the cruiser.[21][23] From the 819-strong ship's company, 84 were killed (74 during the battle, 10 dying later from wounds), and another 109 were wounded.[24][11] American destroyers rescuing the surviving crew from HMAS Canberra after the Battle of Savo Island. In the billowing smoke, USS Patterson is approaching Canberra from astern.
"At 03:30, Patterson came alongside and relayed orders from Rear Admiral Turner: if Canberra could not achieve mobility by 06:30, she would be abandoned and sunk.[24] The destroyer began to recover the Australian survivors, but at 04:30, Patterson detected an approaching ship.[24] The destroyer moved to investigate, at which point the unknown ship opened fire, and Patterson retaliated.[24] It was quickly realised that the attacker was USS Chicago, which had mistaken Canberra for a damaged Japanese vessel, and both ships ceased fire.[24] Patterson returned to continue the evacuation, and was aided by sister ship USS Blue.[25]
"Canberra's engines could not be repaired, and was to be scuttled.[25] She was torpedoed by the destroyer USS Ellet at 08:00, after 263 5-inch shells and four other torpedoes fired by USS Selfridge failed to do the job..."
I think the naming of the Baltimore class Canberra was just a gesture of solidarity.
Churchill very quickly replaced her. but after all he wasn't really giving up anything since the Brits were having a manpower shortage.
The survival of the County class may have been partly attributable to the way they were used. They escorted a lot of high priority high speed convoys. Those convoys fared well with very few losses to U-boats and after 1941 not much danger from surface raiders.
My favorite British cruisers were the Town class like Sheffield, the Leanders, and the Didos
"Just over two hours later, with visibility low owing to overcast sky and rain showers,unidentified ships loomed into view about 3,000 yards (3,000 m) distant on the port bow.
These were seven Japanese cruisers and a destroyer under Rear Admiral Gunichi Mikawa sent from Rabaul to attack the American transports.
At that moment,0144 according to Bagley's log,float planes from the Japanese cruisers dropped flares that lit up the American warships.
Bagley turned sharply to the left to bring the starboard torpedo tubes to bear on the Japanese warships looming out of the darkness but,either due to the torpedoes not being armed in time or because the ship turned too quickly for the torpedo tubes to be aimed properly,she continued her turn and fired four torpedoes to the northwest from number two port mount.
Although the torpedomen claimed hits a few minutes later,no Japanese ships were damaged by torpedoes in that area.
It is possible,but unconfirmed, that one or two of Bagley's torpedoes may have hit Canberra on her starboard side."
From Canberra's wiki:
"At least one torpedo strike was reported during the Japanese attack,although none of the 19 torpedoes fired at Canberra by the Japanese cruisers were recorded as hitting their target."
Bagley was on Canberra's starboard side. Bagley fired torpedos. Her torpedo men claimed hits.
No Japanese ship was hit by a torpedo. No Japanese ship claimed a torpedo hit on Canberra.
Canberra suffered hits low on her starboard side resulting in her listing to starboard. The Japanese were on her port side.
That is not conclusive evidence that U.S.S. Bagley hit H.M.A.S. Canberra but it does look very suspicious.
9 comments:
British built, Spanish heavy cruiser.
Hello Chuck Hill,
could be,which one?
GrandLogistics.
Canarias, after refit that changed her large trunked singe stack to twin.
Sorry, British design, based on the County class, but built in Ferrol.
I had though that a Cleveland class somehow hooked up with the Prinz Eugen. That flush deck with those German looking turrets? And a tripod mast? Wasn't close to getting this one.
Hello Chuck Hill,
that is she.
Incidentally,the British 8" heavy cruisers lead quite a charmed life during the Second World War,very few of them were lost.
I have no idea why that is,other British cruisers often seemed a bit "fragile".
GrandLogistics.
5 out of 15 sunk.
Cornwall and Dorsetshire bombed by the Japanese, both overwhelmed and sank quickly.
Canberra sunk at Savo.
York, beached on Crete after being hit by an explosive motor boat was finished off by bombing.
Exerter damaged at Java Sea, was finished off by the four Japanese Nachi class Heavy Cruisers two days later.
The Japanese were pretty hard on them.
Hello Chuck Hill,
I forgot about the 2 Yorks,it was the Counties I had in mind,10 of 13 survived the war,not a bad ratio for Royal Navy ships.
The later Towns lost 4 out of 10.
The Crown Colonies fared better but they did not serve through the whole war.
The Counties are one of my favourite ship classes.
Probably the most elegant British warships built.
Savo Island was a very impressive battle,it was very well executed.
Unfortunately it was well executed by the enemy,but you can't have everything.
It is rumoured that the Australian cruiser was sunk by an American destroyer which might explain an American cruiser later receiving an Australian name.
GrandLogistics.
Canberra was very much unready for battle. Not unlike the Italian heavies at Matapan.
I doubt an American destroyer could have sunk it, considering how badly our torpedoes were working. The Japanese really didn't seem to need any help.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Canberra_%28D33%29
"The Australian cruiser was able to avoid the Japanese torpedoes fired at the start of the engagement, but was on the receiving end of the Japanese cruisers' gunfire.[21] The first two salvos killed or wounded several senior officers, disabled both engine rooms, damaged the bridge and 4-inch gun platform and forced the flooding of her 8-inch magazines.[21][11] Within two minutes, the cruiser had been hit 24 times; she was immobilised, without power, and listing to starboard, with multiple internal fires and at least a fifth of her personnel dead or wounded.[22] At least one torpedo strike was reported during the Japanese attack, although none of the 19 torpedoes fired at Canberra by the Japanese cruisers were recorded as hitting their target.[21] Several personnel from Canberra believe that USS Bagley inadvertently torpedoed the cruiser.[21][23] From the 819-strong ship's company, 84 were killed (74 during the battle, 10 dying later from wounds), and another 109 were wounded.[24][11]
American destroyers rescuing the surviving crew from HMAS Canberra after the Battle of Savo Island. In the billowing smoke, USS Patterson is approaching Canberra from astern.
"At 03:30, Patterson came alongside and relayed orders from Rear Admiral Turner: if Canberra could not achieve mobility by 06:30, she would be abandoned and sunk.[24] The destroyer began to recover the Australian survivors, but at 04:30, Patterson detected an approaching ship.[24] The destroyer moved to investigate, at which point the unknown ship opened fire, and Patterson retaliated.[24] It was quickly realised that the attacker was USS Chicago, which had mistaken Canberra for a damaged Japanese vessel, and both ships ceased fire.[24] Patterson returned to continue the evacuation, and was aided by sister ship USS Blue.[25]
"Canberra's engines could not be repaired, and was to be scuttled.[25] She was torpedoed by the destroyer USS Ellet at 08:00, after 263 5-inch shells and four other torpedoes fired by USS Selfridge failed to do the job..."
I think the naming of the Baltimore class Canberra was just a gesture of solidarity.
Churchill very quickly replaced her. but after all he wasn't really giving up anything since the Brits were having a manpower shortage.
The survival of the County class may have been partly attributable to the way they were used. They escorted a lot of high priority high speed convoys. Those convoys fared well with very few losses to U-boats and after 1941 not much danger from surface raiders.
My favorite British cruisers were the Town class like Sheffield, the Leanders, and the Didos
Hello Chuck Hill,
here is an extract from the wiki on Bagley:
"Just over two hours later, with visibility low owing to overcast sky and rain showers,unidentified ships loomed into view about 3,000 yards (3,000 m) distant on the port bow.
These were seven Japanese cruisers and a destroyer under Rear Admiral Gunichi Mikawa sent from Rabaul to attack the American transports.
At that moment,0144 according to Bagley's log,float planes from the Japanese cruisers dropped flares that lit up the American warships.
Bagley turned sharply to the left to bring the starboard torpedo tubes to bear on the Japanese warships looming out of the darkness but,either due to the torpedoes not being armed in time or because the ship turned too quickly for the torpedo tubes to be aimed properly,she continued her turn and fired four torpedoes to the northwest from number two port mount.
Although the torpedomen claimed hits a few minutes later,no Japanese ships were damaged by torpedoes in that area.
It is possible,but unconfirmed, that one or two of Bagley's torpedoes may have hit Canberra on her starboard side."
From Canberra's wiki:
"At least one torpedo strike was reported during the Japanese attack,although none of the 19 torpedoes fired at Canberra by the Japanese cruisers were recorded as hitting their target."
Bagley was on Canberra's starboard side.
Bagley fired torpedos.
Her torpedo men claimed hits.
No Japanese ship was hit by a torpedo.
No Japanese ship claimed a torpedo hit on Canberra.
Canberra suffered hits low on her starboard side resulting in her listing to starboard.
The Japanese were on her port side.
That is not conclusive evidence that U.S.S. Bagley hit H.M.A.S. Canberra but it does look very suspicious.
GrandLogistics.
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